STFU, Conservatives

youwannatalkaboutdinosaurs submitted

Hey Joe, 

Thank you for giving me a response directly. I appreciate it. I figured this would be the best way to rebut so that I’m not flooding my page with the same pic over and over and, if you decide to respond, you won’t be reposting either. So, Here we go:

"The arguments you’re making are the exact same derailing bullshit arguments that come up every single time that someone tries to argue about this stuff without a shred of understanding of how oppression and marginalization works."

You got me there. As a caucasian American I don’t understand the way oppression and marginalization works outside of the books I’ve read and movies I’ve seen, etc. By that I mean to say, I have never personally been oppressed or marginalized directly, nor has my family. But I have read books. Also, are my opinions “the exact same derailing bullshit arguments” you always hear or are they poignant? Perhaps refreshing? Maybe even worth considering?

“But it happens to me too” derail. Also none of your other examples compare to this situation AT ALL. Here’s what this is actually like: imagine you’re 3rd generation Japanese-American. Guy at work takes your picture giggling about you seeing it later, then he posts one of those “looksjustlike” things with you as Kim Jong Il. That’s the best comparison I can make, if you can’t understand that I can’t help you understand in terms of white people because there isn’t a similar scenario involving them.

First, you’re going to tell me the Mel Gibson/Saddam Hussein one isn’t applicable? Here’s the link, they totally look alike:

http://totallylookslike.icanhascheezburger.com/2011/10/14/tll-classics-mel-gibson-totally-looks-like-saddam-hussein/

They are of two different races. One of them is a tyrannical dictator. One of them is a white guy, albeit an Australian, an anti-semite, and an all around bad person white guy. Is it because he’s famous that it doesn’t apply? Or because he’s known to be an asshole? I don’t know…seems just as relevant to me. Your Kim Jong-Il example is accurate but I’d still respond with a “So?” If they look alike, they look alike. Who’s fault is that? What does it matter? Why can’t I point that similarity out? If there’s no negative connotations to me looking like a greek and Mel looking like an Iraqi dictator why are there  for Sam or your Japanese-American guy?


You’re as bad as they are” derail

That’s all you’re giving me to work with? C’mon! It’s not even a derail. You didn’t even quote the whole paragraph. Let me explain why I think there’s more racism afoot; I would like to believe that this guy posted this without a single thought about race, who was Indian, and who was a tyrannical monster. I’m sure I wouldn’t have. You can call that stupid if you want, but I’d hesitate to call it racism. The thing I find odd is that people are blowing their tops because one is Punjabi and the other is Persian/Iranian. Rather than it being two people who, in my opinion, don’t look VERY similar it becomes a case of apples and oranges. People are saying, “You can’t compare these two because they are from different races. They are not the same as each other. They are different from each other. They are different from you and they are different from me.” Now this Sam is no longer a guy that faintly(I mean, c’mon, JUUUUST a little bit) resembles Ahmadinejad, He’s an Indian. An entire culture. Not a person. But he’s not actually an Indian is he? Sure of Indian descent, but what I mean is he’s an American. I assume this solely because you used “third generation Japanese-American” in your example (who also might as well drop the Japanese in front of American too, in my opinion). I mean, I’m not Norwegian, I’m American. Unless you want to call me, like, I don’t know, fifth generation Norse. Again I ask,if I’m wrong, how can the rules change? I find racism in defining a person by their race/descent. I’d point you to an Aziz Ansari clip where he talks about people asking him where he’s from and his response being, “South Carolina.” but this is all I could find:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFEwFw4PqPg


It’s Only The Internet/A Joke” derail

What I said was, “You mean it’s a comedy site?” Not “Only the internet”. It’s not a derail. Why are you getting so butthurt over an office prank that probably happened hundreds and hundreds of miles from you? Seriously, I want to know, why? Because I follow you, enjoy most of your posts, and typically agree with your point of view (thanks for calling me a fucker, by the way. That’s how they promote an open exchange of ideas or debate here in Mississippi too). Speaking of, if you want to get butthurt over something serious look at Mississippi’s upcoming personhood amendment. That’s some taking women’s rights away from them type shit. This is a stupid joke. 


You’re just Oversensitive” derail and yes you’re also a sexist (and this is me dealing with it)

Yes, I agree the point of the sand in vagina comment was me implying you were oversensitive. If the majority of the response to this was, “they don’t look alike” I would agree, but it’s more about their race. What does that have to do with this? You assume it’s because he saw brown skin. I don’t. I kind of see the resemblance. Not a lot. Not even enough to make this. But it IS there. You’re leap to ‘IT’S BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH BROWN’ is  extremely racist and I don’t think you see it.

Also, I reiterate: Others take umbrage with the fact that Ahmadinejad was a dictator and all around no fun guy, to which I say, “This dude only thinks they LOOK alike. He doesn’t actually think they are the same person.”

What was Sam’s response? There’s a genuine question that I haven’t heard yet.


This was a bit rushed, so if I need to clarify anything feel free to hit me back. I’d like a response, if you have the time or interest. It can be in public or private, I’m fine either way.
-Jon

_________________________________________________

So I apologize for this wall of text but I have to HAVE TO to comment on some of the casual ignorance and white privilege going on.

Did you read any of those links? Did you see what derailing is and how it works and why it’s bad? I really don’t think so because you nailed a couple new ones this time around.

As a caucasian American I don’t understand the way oppression and marginalization works outside of the books I’ve read and movies I’ve seen, etc.

If your jumping off point is “I don’t understand beyond what I’ve read” you might want to take a step back and not pull together an argument you can’t defend.

Also, are my opinions “the exact same derailing bullshit arguments” you always hear or are they poignant? Perhaps refreshing? Maybe even worth considering?

No, they’re not, at all. It’s actually almost comical how you were using derailing strategies that were pulled almost verbatim from Derailing For Dummies. That site exists because you are not “refreshing” it exists because we’ve seen the same arguments played out over and over again. You are no exception.

First, you’re going to tell me the Mel Gibson/Saddam Hussein one isn’t applicable?

Yes, as a matter of fact I am. It’s not applicable because as a rich white heterosexual cisgendered male he is immune from pretty much all forms of systematic oppression. Not only that but the beard he chose to grow was similar to that of Saddam Hussein, that is the comparison, there is no racial component.

Your Kim Jong-Il example is accurate but I’d still respond with a “So?” If they look alike, they look alike. Who’s fault is that? What does it matter? Why can’t I point that similarity out?

In my Kim Jong-Il example I meant for that they don’t look alike (like Sam) and aren’t even from the same country, just a slightly similar skintone that is hard for the ignorant eye to distinguish.

You’re as bad as they are” derail

That’s all you’re giving me to work with? C’mon! It’s not even a derail.

Yes it is, saying “Well maybe you’re the real racist” is a derail.

Now this Sam is no longer a guy that faintly(I mean, c’mon, JUUUUST a little bit) resembles Ahmadinejad…

No, I’m sorry, I don’t see any similarity beyond a vaguely skintone. Even that I can tell that Sam is quite darker than Ahmadinejad.

He’s an Indian. An entire culture. Not a person. But he’s not actually an Indian is he? Sure of Indian descent, but what I mean is he’s an American. I assume this solely because you used “third generation Japanese-American” in your example (who also might as well drop the Japanese in front of American too, in my opinion).

Alright, this, this right here. This is some hardcore white privilege. The only reason you can even say something like “maybe they should just be called Americans instead of Japanese-Americans” is because your culture has never been in danger of being homogenized out of you. American minorities (and don’t pull out your Norweigan stuff again, that’s not a minority) constantly struggle to manage the dichotomy of being American while still holding on to their roots and culture. They struggle with that because ignorance like what your talking about is so pervasive. The attitude that it is their responsibility to assimilate to you to make your life more convenient and less fraught with the consideration of others.

I’d point you to an Aziz Ansari clip where he talks about people asking him where he’s from and his response being, “South Carolina.” but this is all I could find

"Well I Know Another Person From Your Group Who Disagrees!" Derail

Also, that really doesn’t have anything to do with this, that is just a different scenario where someone is being a racist.

Why are you getting so butthurt over an office prank that probably happened hundreds and hundreds of miles from you?

"Don’t You Have More Important Things To Worry About?" Derail

And because that’s what we do, we talk down and attack racism and conservatives. We greatly disagree with the image and its intent.

(thanks for calling me a fucker, by the way. That’s how they promote an open exchange of ideas or debate here in Mississippi too). Speaking of, if you want to get butthurt over something serious look at Mississippi’s upcoming personhood

You’re Being Hostile" Derail AND "Don’t You Have More Important Things To Worry About?" Derail AGAIN! Not only that but we have posted about the Mississippi personhood amendment.

You’re leap to ‘IT’S BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH BROWN’ is  extremely racist and I don’t think you see it.

Ok, I never said anything like that. That’s not even a derail that’s just a straight-up strawman. I’ve said numerous times, the only similarity I can see is the kinda-but-not-really similar skin tones. The hairline is different, the face structure is different, the eyebrows are different, I’m just not seeing this obvious similarities you are.

So again, no, you’re not unique or refreshing. You’re pretty much completely ignorant of your privilege and by that regard are in a poor position to claim what isn’t racist. I can only educate you so much towards that. I hope some of this clears up your misunderstanding.

-Joe

  1. msmarielark said: It’s amazing how defensive white people say the same shit over and over again; our brains really do slot themselves into the same grooves. That derailing site is a such a great one, but I feel like it’s so difficult getting the message to sink in.
  2. haythamsbooty reblogged this from stfuconservatives and added:
    The only reason you can even say something like “maybe they should just be called Americans instead of...
  3. phfem said: Every time I see a link to “derailing for dummies” I have a terrible urge to have an abortion for the fun of it.
  4. followingyourbliss reblogged this from stfuconservatives and added:
    Ugh. When the racefail bingo card is full, everybody loses.
  5. psychoqueer said: how exactly is this about joe’s ego
  6. aexquisitesasdf said: "your culture has never been in danger of being homogenized out of you" I love this part so much.
  7. justinherrick said: Can I just say its shit like this that makes me want to unfollow stfu and seriously want to disassociate myself with them. I loved this tumblr so much, before Joe decided to make it about his ego first and issues second.
  8. rasmalaiwin reblogged this from stfuconservatives
  9. snowdarkred reblogged this from stfuconservatives and added:
    I’m sorry, dash, but I couldn’t NOT share this. This is…fuck, this is like the cliffnotes version of the Derailing for...
  10. versace-beards submitted this to stfuconservatives
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